{"id":150,"date":"2010-11-22T06:19:59","date_gmt":"2010-11-22T10:19:59","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/ramchal.wordpress.com\/?p=150"},"modified":"2010-11-22T06:19:59","modified_gmt":"2010-11-22T10:19:59","slug":"not-speaking-of-god-himself","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/rabbiyaakovfeldman.aishdas.org\/ramchal\/2010\/11\/22\/not-speaking-of-god-himself\/","title":{"rendered":"Not Speaking of God Himself"},"content":{"rendered":"

The next point to have in mind is that \u201cwe won\u2019t be discussing God Himself<\/em>\u201d– God irrespective of creation and in His utterly unfathomable being — in this work, since we may not .<\/p>\n

We may not discuss God Himself for a number of reasons: most significantly, we\u2019d offer, because\u00a0whatever<\/em> we\u2019d say about Him in His essence — which is necessarily out of the context of reality as we know it — would be incorrect. Since all the words, symbols, and references we would have to draw upon would be based on human experiences which are un-Godlike by definition. For even the term \u201cWill\u201d in relation to God is purely metaphorical, since even the suggestion of so subtle and recondite element as a will is still-and-all anthropomorphic, and only depicts God in relation to created beings rather than Himself. Ramchal said elsewhere that only God could grasp Himself (Derech Hashem<\/em> 1:1:2), for as it had once been put, \u201cIf I knew Him, I would\u00a0be<\/em> Him\u201d (Sefer HaIkkurim<\/em> 2:30).<\/p>\n

Now, the ramifications of the fact that we\u2019re neither able nor allowed to speak of God Himself are huge. Among many other things it implies that God\u00a0Himself<\/em> isn\u2019t addressed in the Torah, only His will for us; and it suggests that most arguments for or against belief in God are off-the-mark since they only touch upon His role as Creator without addressing His Being before creation.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s also important to say that speaking of God Himself might lead one to inadvertently demean Him, and to so misunderstand Him that one would be worshipping a not-God rather than Him [1].<\/p>\n

As such, whatever will be said in\u00a0Klach Pitchei Chochma<\/em> <\/em>will only touch upon God\u2019s\u00a0will<\/em> <\/em>rather than on Himself, since \u201cwe<\/em> <\/em>are <\/em>permitted to speak of it<\/em>\u201d [2]. That explains Ramchal\u2019s references to God\u2019s will alone later on, too.<\/p>\n

\n

He warns us, though, that even discussions about God\u2019s will have their restrictions, given that \u201cthere\u2019s a limit as to how far our minds can go<\/em>\u201d as far as that\u2019s concerned as well [3].<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

——————————————————————–<\/p>\n

Notes:<\/p>\n

[1] That having been said, we\u2019re nonetheless about to explain the concept of God as it\u2019s understood classically because in point of fact Ramchal did \u201cdefine\u201d Him in another work written for a wider readership than this one,\u00a0known as Derech Hashem<\/em>(The Way of God<\/em>). And he did that there presumably in order to introduce and clarify the matter to some degree as well as to further the conversation.<\/p>\n

He wrote there (1:1:6, based on Maimonides\u2019s\u00a0Yesodei HaTorah<\/em> Ch. 1) that what one should understand about God is that He exists (though not the way we exist, with all that implies about our mortality, limitations, etc.), that He\u2019s perfect, that His existence is imperative (i.e., if He didn\u2019t exist, then nothing else would exist either; His existence is utterly necessary), that He’s utterly self-sufficient, that He’s simple (i.e., purely God, and unalloyed), and that there’s only one of Him (which Ramchal will touch upon below in more depth.) Ramchal also indicated there that our knowledge of Him is a consequence of the traditions we have of Him from the forefathers and the prophets, and from our mystical experience at God at Mount Sinai (1:1:2), when God appeared to us with the revelation of the Torah (see Exodus 19-20), and when we were on par with Moses\u2019 level of prophecy (Yesodei HaTorah<\/em> 8:1,3).<\/em><\/p>\n

As to the notion that we won\u2019t be speaking of God Himself but of His will that statement was probably inspired by The opening word\u2019s of the Ari\u2019s\u00a0Eitz Chaim<\/em>, \u201cWhen God first willed<\/em> to create beings\u2026\u201d.<\/p>\n

See the following citations about our not being able or allowed to speak of God Himself: Ramchal\u2019s\u00a0Da\u2019at Tevunot<\/em> 80,\u00a0Adir Bamarom <\/em>p.59A,\u00a0Ma\u2019amar HaVichuach<\/em> 44, and\u00a0Ma\u2019amar Yichud HaYirah<\/em>; also see the Vilna Gaon at the end of his commentary to\u00a0Sifra D\u2019tzniutah<\/em>, \u201cSod Hatzimtzum\u201d<\/em>; the beginning of HaRav m\u2019Fano\u2019s\u00a0Yonat Elim;<\/em> Ramban\u2019s introduction to his commentary to the Torah, and\u00a0Tikkunei Zohar<\/em> 17a (Petach Eliyahu)<\/em>. Also see Maimonides\u2019\u00a0Guide for the Perplexed<\/em> (1:58-59).<\/p>\n

God Himself is often referred to as Ein<\/em> Sof<\/em>, the Infinite, in Kabbalistic literature to differentiate Him from the four-letter name usually attributed to Him. See Ramchal\u2019s discussion of that differentiation in Klallim<\/em> (p. 352) and below, in this work, in Petach<\/em> 15.<\/p>\n

[2] Ramchal makes the distinction later on between being allowed to speak of the will rather than of \u201cThe One Who Wills<\/em>\u201d (the Ba\u2019al HaRatzon<\/em> rather than the\u00a0ratzon<\/em>). Also see Cordovero\u2019s\u00a0Pardes<\/em> (20:1).<\/p>\n

[3] \u2026 given that His will is the very\u00a0first<\/em> <\/em>and hence most tenuous point at which His Being and creation converge.<\/p>\n

(c) 2010 Rabbi Yaakov Feldman<\/p>\n

Feel free to contact me at feldman@torah.org<\/a><\/p>\n

———————————————————-<\/p>\n

AT LONG LAST! Rabbi Feldman’s translation of Maimonides’ “Eight Chapters” is available here<\/a> at a discount.<\/p>\n

You can still purchase a copy of Rabbi Feldman’s translation of “The Gates of Repentance” here<\/a> at a discount as well.<\/p>\n

Rabbi Yaakov Feldman has also translated and commented upon “The Path of the Just” and “The Duties of the Heart” (Jason Aronson Publishers).<\/p>\n

Rabbi Feldman also offers two free e-mail classes on www.torah.org entitled “Spiritual Excellence<\/a>\u201d and \u201cRamchal<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

The next point to have in mind is that \u201cwe won\u2019t be discussing God Himself\u201d– God irrespective of creation and in His utterly unfathomable being — in this work, since we may not . We may not discuss God Himself … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-150","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/rabbiyaakovfeldman.aishdas.org\/ramchal\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/150","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/rabbiyaakovfeldman.aishdas.org\/ramchal\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/rabbiyaakovfeldman.aishdas.org\/ramchal\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/rabbiyaakovfeldman.aishdas.org\/ramchal\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/rabbiyaakovfeldman.aishdas.org\/ramchal\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=150"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/rabbiyaakovfeldman.aishdas.org\/ramchal\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/150\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/rabbiyaakovfeldman.aishdas.org\/ramchal\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=150"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/rabbiyaakovfeldman.aishdas.org\/ramchal\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=150"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/rabbiyaakovfeldman.aishdas.org\/ramchal\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=150"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}